Catch Can; how is yours?

[Finface]

Satisfying the six month warranty requirement no matter how many miles...

I drove 1,442 miles between oil changes right at the six month point, of which about half was on road courses with lots of hard acceleration and some WOT on the long straights, and half highway and country road easy cruising between 1,500 and 2,500 RPM, mostly on the low side of that.

I estimate two teaspoons, which is .33 fluid ounces. 16 fluid ounces is a pint.

The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum oil was very dark. Here and in the drain pan.

 

[moparjim]

If these vehicles required a catch can, MOPAR would install one, no?

The problem there is most would not check it. Which in time could lead to some issues.
Hell they can't even get people to check the oil on a regular basis.

 

[BULL]

If these vehicles required a catch can, MOPAR would install one, no?

They DID install one.

Adding another one to improve upon what is there is the goal.

Keep in mind, the oil vapor in the pcv loop is the worst of the acidic vapor in the engine. Keeping more of it out is better.

And here's the thing that I fall back on every time. I know one of the original development engineers on the HC engine personally. If he put one on his car, I sure as hell am going to put one on mine.

.25

 

[68coronet]

They DID install one.

Adding another one to improve upon what is there is the goal.

Keep in mind, the oil vapor in the pcv loop is the worst of the acidic vapor in the engine. Keeping more of it out is better.

And here's the thing that I fall back on every time. I know one of the original development engineers on the HC engine personally. If he put one on his car, I sure as hell am going to put one on mine.

.25

I was looking at the Moroso can with the outlet on the bottom. Question: Could acidic oil and exhaust reentering the cylinders be partly responsible for lifter failure? i.e. HEMI tick.

 

[TraxMoe]

Satisfying the six month warranty requirement no matter how many miles...

I drove 1,442 miles between oil changes right at the six month point, of which about half was on road courses with lots of hard acceleration and some WOT on the long straights, and half highway and country road easy cruising between 1,500 and 2,500 RPM, mostly on the low side of that.

I estimate two teaspoons, which is .33 fluid ounces. 16 fluid ounces is a pint.

The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum oil was very dark. Here and in the drain pan.

If you're running that many miles on a road course you should be changing your oil based on engine hours and not mileage. I don't care if it is synthetic or not it still breaks down. track miles are real hard on the oil and you should consider limiting the engine hours to 15 before you change the oil. but that's just my opinion you can do whatever you like.

 

[BULL]

If you're running that many miles on a road course you should be changing your oil based on engine hours and not mileage. I don't care if it is synthetic or not it still breaks down. track miles are real hard on the oil and you should consider limiting the engine hours to 15 before you change the oil. but that's just my opinion you can do whatever you like.

I change my oil after any dedicated race event.

Yes, it's made for some very short oil changes.

 

[BULL]

I was looking at the Moroso can with the outlet on the bottom. Question: Could acidic oil and exhaust reentering the cylinders be partly responsible for lifter failure? i.e. HEMI tick.

Not in my humble opinion.

My 5.7 has it bad, obviously whole different engine.

 

[DGatzby]

Satisfying the six month warranty requirement no matter how many miles...

I drove 1,442 miles between oil changes right at the six month point, of which about half was on road courses with lots of hard acceleration and some WOT on the long straights, and half highway and country road easy cruising between 1,500 and 2,500 RPM, mostly on the low side of that.

I estimate two teaspoons, which is .33 fluid ounces. 16 fluid ounces is a pint.

The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum oil was very dark. Here and in the drain pan.

View attachment 46127

Good one. That is consistent with what mine looks like also.

 

[Finface]

If you're running that many miles on a road course you should be changing your oil based on engine hours and not mileage. I don't care if it is synthetic or not it still breaks down. track miles are real hard on the oil and you should consider limiting the engine hours to 15 before you change the oil. but that's just my opinion you can do whatever you like.

Traxmoe,

I hadn't heard, or thought, about engine hours as criteria for track cars, but it makes sense. It worked out to something like 20 hours of engine run time for that total mileage. I based that on my "about half" of the 1,442 miles being 8 hours of track time at an average of 85 mph - admittedly just an estimate (and probably a too high average speed *grin* - one can dream!). Engine hours (along with annually if you don't hit the hour mark) is how manuals recommend it for boats, riding lawn mowers and propeller planes. There is always that caveat about "extreme conditions" in about every manual I've seen.

Something I haven't seen coming off the track in my Red Eye is high oil temperatures - never higher than 233 - which isn't much higher than the normal driving average. There is a plastic scoop that directs air to the oil cooler.

Appreciate the comment.

 

[Hellcatcfp]

Not in my humble opinion.

My 5.7 has it bad, obviously whole different engine.

Out of curiosity do you run Pennzoil? Some speculate Molybdenum helps quiet the tick. Curious if your oil has Moly (as main AW ingredient)?

 

[BULL]

Out of curiosity do you run Pennzoil? Some speculate Molybdenum helps quiet the tick. Curious if your oil has Moly (as main AW ingredient)?

That vehicle has always run M1

I didn't know about the Moly until it was too late.

 

[DGatzby]

Traxmoe,

I hadn't heard, or thought, about engine hours as criteria for track cars, but it makes sense. It worked out to something like 20 hours of engine run time for that total mileage. I based that on my "about half" of the 1,442 miles being 8 hours of track time at an average of 85 mph - admittedly just an estimate (and probably a too high average speed *grin* - one can dream!). Engine hours (along with annually if you don't hit the hour mark) is how manuals recommend it for boats, riding lawn mowers and propeller planes. There is always that caveat about "extreme conditions" in about every manual I've seen.

Something I haven't seen coming off the track in my Red Eye is high oil temperatures - never higher than 233 - which isn't much higher than the normal driving average. There is a plastic scoop that directs air to the oil cooler.

Appreciate the comment.

Wow, maybe that engine of mine was not right! I saw 293 degrees two Saturday’s ago! That is a big difference for identical cars doing basically the same thing. And yes! @BULL the dealer had the instruction to change the oil.

 

[TrackDay]

Wow, maybe that engine of mine was not right! I saw 293 degrees two Saturday’s ago! That is a big difference for identical cars doing basically the same thing. And yes! @BULL the dealer had the instruction to change the oil.

I routinely see over 270F in mine on a summer day. 233 seems quite cool for oil when driven in anger. Maybe that's coolant?

 

[BULL]

I routinely see over 270F in mine on a summer day. 233 seems quite cool for oil when driven in anger. Maybe that's coolant?

This oil temp thing is intriguing. Mine seems to run cooler than this, but I also don't have nearly as much course time as you.

I want to say that ~240 seems to be my high end with 220 ish being normal.

Next time I get out to HPR I'll check it there.

 

[DGatzby]

See @BULL he burns brakes, I fry superchargers to catch up! TD not in anger! Where did that come from? I was only angry that day last year I parked it and said you go drive it, it won’t go faster than that, it has a gremlin. Maybe it had that long lasting Covid cough or something!

@Finface I have seen 230 oil temps on some back roads the way I drive. Did you really see that on course? I promise to attempt to learn more from the “engineers” soon on the real expected temps, then I’ll share.

 

[Finface]

I routinely see over 270F in mine on a summer day. 233 seems quite cool for oil when driven in anger. Maybe that's coolant?

It ran at or below 233 during the four days of HPDE, mid and the end of May. The OAT never was higher than 75.

It's the original coolant, which the manual is very clear about not deviating from. It's OAT coolant (conforming to MS.90032). Organic Additive Technology (OAT), whatever that is...

 

[DGatzby]

It ran at or below 233 during the four days of HPDE, mid and the end of May. The OAT never was higher than 75.

It's the original coolant, which the manual is very clear about not deviating from. It's OAT coolant (conforming to MS.90032). Organic Additive Technology (OAT), whatever that is...

What he is asking is that you verify, was 233 your oil or coolant temp?

 

[Finface]

See @BULL he burns brakes, I fry superchargers to catch up! TD not in anger! Where did that come from? I was only angry that day last year I parked it and said you go drive it, it won’t go faster than that, it has a gremlin. Maybe it had that long lasting Covid cough or something!

@Finface I have seen 230 oil temps on some back roads the way I drive. Did you really see that on course? I promise to attempt to learn more from the “engineers” soon on the real expected temps, then I’ll share.

Yes, running hard for 30 minute sessions, OAT never higher than 75. I call up the performance pages APP on the UConnect screen and have oil pressure and oil temperature displayed on the track. At NCM on May 29/30th I was WOT for 5-6 seconds three times on the long straights every lap, with RPM's constantly up and down between 3,000 and 6,300. I thought I'd see hotter oil, especially the few times I pitted without a cool down lap, but 233 was it.

I found this marketing blurb about the upgrade SRT oil filter a while ago (there are two that are OEM filters). Your oil isn't dirty, but note that the Red Eye engine has two high flow oil pumps. In the "leaving no stone unturned department", I wonder if there is a way to know that both are working in your car? Just a thought...

"Mopar SRT engine oil filter is worth slight cost increase because the high flow oil pumps in our large engines can overpower the internal relief valve. When this valve opens it allows some of the high pressure dirty oil to bypass the filter element in order to keep the filter from being damaged. The SRT filters do indeed have a higher differential bypass valve to make sure all the oil delivered to your power plant is clean. The housing is slightly thicker than many of the brands out there to handle the pressure. The media used is one of the latest synthetics that allows very fine filtration, more debris capacity, and much lower restriction than our standard Mopar filter. The final result is cleaner oil, all the time, with more pressure to the internals where it is needed.”

 

[Finface]

What he is asking is that you verify, was 233 your oil or coolant temp?

Oh, sorry, no, not mistaking coolant for oil temperature - thx.

 

[DGatzby]

Yes, running hard for 30 minute sessions, OAT never higher than 75. I call up the performance pages APP on the UConnect screen and have oil pressure and oil temperature displayed on the track. At NCM on May 29/30th I was WOT for 5-6 seconds three times on the long straights every lap, with RPM's constantly up and down between 3,000 and 6,300. I thought I'd see hotter oil, especially the few times I pitted without a cool down lap, but 233 was it.

I found this marketing blurb about the upgrade SRT oil filter a while ago (there are two that are OEM filters). Your oil isn't dirty, but note that the Red Eye engine has two high flow oil pumps. In the "leaving no stone unturned department", I wonder if there is a way to know that both are working in your car? Just a thought...

"Mopar SRT engine oil filter is worth slight cost increase because the high flow oil pumps in our large engines can overpower the internal relief valve. When this valve opens it allows some of the high pressure dirty oil to bypass the filter element in order to keep the filter from being damaged. The SRT filters do indeed have a higher differential bypass valve to make sure all the oil delivered to your power plant is clean. The housing is slightly thicker than many of the brands out there to handle the pressure. The media used is one of the latest synthetics that allows very fine filtration, more debris capacity, and much lower restriction than our standard Mopar filter. The final result is cleaner oil, all the time, with more pressure to the internals where it is needed.”

I guess the oil filter info is more than I need for this discussion. I have used the same filter for two Hellcats now. 60-72 psi oil pressure okay with you? SRT did not comment that I had a problem with the SRT filter installed. That probably don’t effect the SC with its sealed lube system anyway. But, heat conductance could be a problem is my point.

Outside air temps on your sensor at 75 degrees? Was the outside real air temp 40?? That reading is usually at least 20-30 degrees in excess of the ambient air temp depending on speed.

I am looking forward to lots of analysis as to what was working and not working. 11 days of research and investigation better well uncover something. I know things will be much, much different in that engine compartment when I drive it again. If I see 290 or more degrees, they get to answer for that. Either mine was way off hot or you need to put the hammer down. I still stand by my statement, I have seen 230+ oil temps just practicing a bit on back roads and 50 degree air temps on that RE engine. I know that because I made notes in May when I was testing the alignment settings. I saw 230-250 oil temps that Sunday in the rain and without much WOT at all. As soon as I got serious, it got up to 290.

Does anyone else see their Redeye heat up to a 228-230 degree water temp after a cold start before it allows return to about 200 degrees?