V86 Emissions Recall

[MikeD1]

Technically, if their flashing software isn't designed to flash firmware with an older revision than the current, what the engineers should be doing ASAP is issuing a incremental revision that basically flashes the old code back. At least until they figure out what they messed up. Who knows how long a new update would take them to recertify.

HA - they still haven't fixed the messed up IAT & inter-cooler temp gauges they screwed up 3 years ago ! Doubt they ever will - those of us with '15 & '16's are just phucked.
Granted, it's not messing with the motor or how the car runs, but it gives you an idea on how they view us from a customer service perspective. Let's face it, this is a 2 minute fix my 8 yr old nephew could make & yet we get nada.

There was also the nasty issue when the 18's came out with the incessant weather alerts - that took 6 months to fix !

Even when they re-release this recall, I'll be waiting for at lest a few months before I get the thing done !

 

[DGatzby]

The recall has been suspended. No one going forward will have it done.

You need to get hold of the VP of Customer Service and declare that your position is that they were negligent and damaged your car by connecting it to their computer and modifying its operating system. I would give them three days to either fix it, or then declare you are beginning Lemon Law proceedings and intend on pressing them to order a new car. I would leave it and all the keys at the dealer AND demand a loaner today to further demonstrate you are serious.

 

[Trucker Bob]

What we need is someone that did not sign the paperwork for arbitration or a lawyer on the forum to advise us (I think we have some here and got the advice) if we can take legal action. I was told by a consumer law lawyer don't ever sign the arbitration papers because it takes away your right to file a class action lawsuit. Too bad I signed that phucking thing. The guy I talked with would love the chance. We might not make money but he would make a $hit ton. I'm thinking about the lemon law. Again I'll state that my dealer has been great and it's not their fault. I wonder if Ford heard about this? It might be time to become a Blue Oval guy. NOT. The pony car can't fit my luggage. My wife is telling me to shut-up.

 

[fumanchu182]

You need to get hold of the VP of Customer Service and declare that your position is that they were negligent and damaged your car by connecting it to their computer and modifying its operating system. I would give them three days to either fix it, or then declare you are beginning Lemon Law proceedings and intend on pressing them to order a new car. I would leave it and all the keys at the dealer AND demand a loaner today to further demonstrate you are serious.

I spoke with the dealership late yesterday, the service manager is doing the best they can. Car is sitting in my garage and will remain there till there is a fix for this. They have reached out to field technicians and I'm going to give them till Friday to get back to me with a fix otherwise my intent is to file a complaint against Dodge, I ship out in August time frame and this needs to be resolved before then. @DodgeCares I would like to share the email with you from my last interaction with customer support. Please reach out to me via PM (basically you guys told me to deal with the dealership, told me I didn't own the car and basically told me I didn't have the recall done, that's three strikes and you're out!). This thread will serve as a historical time line of what has happened since the beginning. @Blow By have you had any success on your part on figuring out what is going on here? Has the SRT tech fixed the issue? @Trucker Bob has your technician said anything else at this point?

I'm kinda at my wits end about this. I thought I was doing a good thing buying a Hellcat and upgrading from my ScatPack, I thought I was going to have fun with this car but so far it has been nothing but a headache and unenjoyable.

 

[HarleyHetz]

Man, this sucks out loud!! I hate it for you, hopefully someone will get you some resolution soon.

 

[DGatzby]

I spoke with the dealership late yesterday, the service manager is doing the best they can. Car is sitting in my garage and will remain there till there is a fix for this. They have reached out to field technicians and I'm going to give them till Friday to get back to me with a fix otherwise my intent is to file a complaint against Dodge, I ship out in August time frame and this needs to be resolved before then. @DodgeCares I would like to share the email with you from my last interaction with customer support. Please reach out to me via PM (basically you guys told me to deal with the dealership, told me I didn't own the car and basically told me I didn't have the recall done, that's three strikes and you're out!). This thread will serve as a historical time line of what has happened since the beginning. @Blow By have you had any success on your part on figuring out what is going on here? Has the SRT tech fixed the issue? @Trucker Bob has your technician said anything else at this point?

I'm kinda at my wits end about this. I thought I was doing a good thing buying a Hellcat and upgrading from my ScatPack, I thought I was going to have fun with this car but so far it has been nothing but a headache and unenjoyable.

That is good you are good terms with your local dealer. That helps, they should support you in resolving this. We all know they need to give you a new PCM swapped in and supported by Dodge if they cannot flash a quick fix for your current system into that car and what sounds like many others. By voiding the “recall” they cried Uncle and admitted to the problem, the fix for you should be easy. I hope you don’t need a lawyer, that would be my last choice, because then everything gets delayed.

 

[Blow By]

Heard the same from the dealer..thru their tech rep. I asked was it OK to drive the car? They replied yes...the noise is the SC venting which it always does...just that the butterfly in the TB is open now when it does this. Working on a software solution, which I believe has to come pretty quick to avoid issues with the EPA and the recall
Bob

 

[stonewall]

I don't want to poke a sore. But a reminder to all that have not gotten into this mess. Do not buy the first cars of a new model, Do not run to dealer as soon as a recall hits the internet. Their is always bugs that need to be fixed. let them fix them for awhile before letting them mess with your car. I hope all get the issues resolved fast. As stated from some. FCA is not performing as well as their cars!

 

[Paladin06]

I don't want to poke a sore. But a reminder to all that have not gotten into this mess. Do not buy the first cars of a new model, Do not run to dealer as soon as a recall hits the internet. Their is always bugs that need to be fixed. let them fix them for awhile before letting them mess with your car. I hope all get the issues resolved fast. As stated from some. FCA is not performing as well as their cars!

I beg to differ. When Challenger came back I
in 2008 I got #904 off the production line. Car delivered 7 July 2008, not one issue until I let it go in August 2019.

I got my 2015 Challenger Hellcat # 834 when they first opened the orders. Still have it today . Some issues but no failures. Items replaced under recall notice only you.

My 2019 Redeye Challenger was produced in November 2018. I purchased it in August 2019. So far no issues other it’s slower then my modded 2015. 😉

 

[fumanchu182]

Heard the same from the dealer..thru their tech rep. I asked was it OK to drive the car? They replied yes...the noise is the SC venting which it always does...just that the butterfly in the TB is open now when it does this. Working on a software solution, which I believe has to come pretty quick to avoid issues with the EPA and the recall
Bob

I’m still not driving it till there is a fix. Compressed air flowing in unwanted directions is an issue. Which TB btw? Supercharger or the air intake? If the supercharger is venting back to atmosphere which one does it have to pass though first?

I don't want to poke a sore. But a reminder to all that have not gotten into this mess. Do not buy the first cars of a new model, Do not run to dealer as soon as a recall hits the internet. Their is always bugs that need to be fixed. let them fix them for awhile before letting them mess with your car. I hope all get the issues resolved fast. As stated from some. FCA is not performing as well as their cars!

You would think the first edition would have all the bugs fixed... as I look at my gauges in the SRT pages not match my EVIC. 🤣

 

[JamesU]

I work in the computer industry and deal with Hardware & Software & Firmware all the time. Root causing issues, finding solutions, etc. I can offer a little speculation, maybe, based on the way this is being handled by FCA thus far.
For those affected by the recall (who have already it done) - If the ECU code cannot be rolled back to the previous version (this can be true), then the dealer ought to be able to replace the ECU with a new one, and flash that with the appropriate older code. This is not completely undo-able, in my opinion. The dealerships (and FCA) don't want to buy people a new ECU if FCA can supply an improved software update soon. It's in their best financial interest to make the affected customers wait for a fix. But it is fixable - everything can be fixed for a price. But this leads to the next possible issue...
You have to look at why there is a hardware fix (new O2 sensors and new Cats) and a software fix (ECU programming) coupled together in one recall. If it was purely a problem of catalytic converters prematurely failing, then all FCA would be changing are the catalytic converters (with better ones). The fact that the O2 sensors and the Software are also being changed indicates to me that the problem is more systematic. Perhaps there is something in the Hellcat tune, at some given time, temperature, altitude, RPM range, etc, that causes the exhaust output to prematurely foul or degrade the catalytic converters and/or O2 sensors, thus shortening their lifespan? Every piece of hardware has a specification, and maybe there is something about the engine's current exhaust gases that are out of specification for the Cats and O2 sensors. We all have warranties saying that these components have to last 8 years (or 80,000 miles). If my theory is true, maybe running new hardware (new Cats and O2 sensors) with the old software (previous ECU code) could potentially cause the new hardware to prematurely fail, which is the fundamental reason why this recall exists in the first place. So, FCA may not want to support this combination of old software with new hardware, as it will likely cause them to replace the Cats and O2 sensors again (more cost), when the car is flashed with the updated code.
Again, I'm a computer guy and just a car hobbyist, but this is what I can speculate from looking at the symptoms and behaviors associated with the recall. I have absolutely no knowledge about FCA and their designs, motives or future plans. This is just me speculating about possible reasons behind their current behaviors.

 

[stonewall]

I’m still not driving it till there is a fix. Compressed air flowing in unwanted directions is an issue. Which TB btw? Supercharger or the air intake? If the supercharger is venting back to atmosphere which one does it have to pass though first?



You would think the first edition would have all the bugs fixed... as I look at my gauges in the SRT pages not match my EVIC. 🤣

You would think they would know that the fix works! before turning it out on owner's. but it appears that instead, we are the test bed for them. Unacceptable. And they either employ a bunch of stupid people. Or they just don't give a shit about their customers. Time will tell.

 

[Magnified]

Counterpoint to the reflash old ECUs. But that would cost dodge money and I doubt they have the ECU lying around if head units and other spares are examples of supply inventory.

Once again I avoid the dealership if at all possible. Being a dodge and having to deal w them is the worst part of my ownership experience w this car.

 

[fumanchu182]

Just updated to the latest HP Tuners beta, I am back in the PCM. Doing a read right now and will be posting in this thread every difference in the new read and the read before the PCM flash, shout out to HP Tuners for updating their beta software.

 

[fumanchu182]

LETS DO THIS!

So I have three files we are going to discuss. The pcm read prior to the flash, the pcm read that would not work, and the pcm read using the beta software. For reference here are the checksums of the files:

Name: STOCK_DO_NOT_MODIFY_COPY_ONLY_DUMBSHIT.hpt
Size: 1317366 bytes (1286 KiB)
SHA1: 087C36E84CC7671CB560D4DBE4F5AD70C4DB992F

Name: STOCK_DO_NOT_MODIFY_COPY_ONLY_DUMBSHIT_AFTERPCMFLASH.hpt
Size: 1418950 bytes (1385 KiB)
SHA1: AFEFFC5128F5DAD33BBD44A3E01E532BEF9429BD

Name: STOCK_DO_NOT_MODIFY_COPY_ONLY_DUMBSHIT_AFTERPCMFLASH_USINGBETA.hpt
Size: 1419246 bytes (1385 KiB)
SHA1: B52B20688C5B9A91996431DCF703D017DAA5E1A4

As you can see after using the beta software the SHA1 hash of the file is different so we will not use the non-operable file read. We will only compare the latest read and the pcm read prior to the flash. At the surface level there are 99KiB to account for in the new pcm read that are not in the prior read, some of these bits may be new logic or some of these may be new values or potentially new tables.

Engine -> General
Nothing Significant To Report (NSTR)

Engine -> Idle
NSTR

Engine -> Airflow
Electronic Throttle -> Min Desired Throttle: New Value 0.10, Old Value 0.03.
[ECM] 3520 - Minimum Demanded Throttle Voltage: The minimum allowed throttle setpoint voltage.

It was discussed before that the throttle body is an issue in the PCM update, if someone more knowledgeable than me could chime in on this parameter that would be appreciated. I believe there have been multiple comments by @Trucker Bob and @Blow By about the throttle body. This definitely was changed in the update. .07 is a sizeable increase. Changing a value by seven percent can do a lot of things, e.g. fuel trims...

Edit: just a moment of clarity. This is the startup value of the throttle body, what does a throttle body do when you turn the car off, returns to the default minimum point. No wonder it sounds like my fucking car is farting, it's a half assed whistle...

Engine -> Exhaust
NSTR

Engine -> Fuel
Cutoff, DFCO -> Misc Cutoff -> Torque Reduction

This one has me scratching my head...

Now to discuss Transmission, this is where things get weird for me, in my pcm read prior to the flash the only thing that shows up in the Transmission section is General, Manual and Torque Management. I don't know if there is a bug in 4.4 but in the beta 4.7 new tables have popped up for me, these are: Shift General, Shift Scheduling, Shift Pressures, Shift Timing, Torque Converter. This may be a unique thing to me or a bug. This is beta software so I cannot tell at this point.

Transmission -> General
New to me: [TCM] 5722 - TCM Limp RPM Limit: If the engine RPM exceeds this TCM RPM Limit, Limp mode will activate and a DTC may set.


New is on the left, old is on the right, one option is missing, and a new one has appeared...

Transmission -> Manual
NSTR

Transmission -> Shift General
Transmission -> Shift Scheduling
Transmission -> Shift Pressures
Transmission -> Shift Timing
Transmission -> Torque Converter
All new in the comparison, may be a bug. If you would like these values if they are indeed new, please let me know and I can post them.

Transmission -> Torque Management


Fuel System
NSTR

System
NSTR

Speedo
NSTR

So there were quite a few changes in the new update, mostly around throttle body and torque management. I have nothing to say about the Transmission tables that are new to me because that might be a bug with the 4.4 software when I did a stock read of the PCM. Who knows what is really going on. Figured I would bring this out into the open for others to comment on, please let me know your thoughts or if there is any other data you would like to see. In other news my VCM Scanner is working as expected and I can see all my Channels again in the Beta.

 

[vortecd]

I’m still not driving it till there is a fix. Compressed air flowing in unwanted directions is an issue. Which TB btw? Supercharger or the air intake? If the supercharger is venting back to atmosphere which one does it have to pass though first

I would drive it, maybe harder then normal. They already know there is an issue so if it breaks new engine

 

[fumanchu182]

I took it for a short trip to get gas, same sound.

 

[Trucker Bob]

Wow Some smart Mothers Fuc... Shut your mouth on this forum that's why I Like it. To respond to some of what others posted. I was told they can't go backwards in the programing and put in the old flash.If they try to program a new ECU ( or whatever name to use) that it will only take the current flash that FCA has out. I asked if I could get a ECU from a wrecked car and was told it would not work because it's not matched to the Vin number of the car. IDK. Fuman that's all above my head. Now the good news I hope. I stopped by and talked to my SVM today. He showed me a private mail from the Engineer that's working on this problem. This guy is smarter than an educated idiot. I'm not going to drop any names but I looked him up when I got home and I think we'll be ok. One thing that helped was the videos that Fuman posted and some other people on FB.
My SVM thinks it should be fixed by mid next week if not sooner. FCA is taking this seriously from what I read and they do watch the forums and know we're here. So let's keep the faith.
For Now.

 

[Trucker Bob]

I would drive it, maybe harder then normal. They already know there is an issue so if it breaks new engine

Don't know if it will matter by I like to keep my numbers matching.

 

[fumanchu182]

I would drive it, maybe harder then normal. They already know there is an issue so if it breaks new engine

As much as I like what you’re saying thats not gonna happen. They’ll tell me my after market wheels were the cause before they give me a new motor.

Wow Some smart Mothers Fuc... Shut your mouth on this forum that's why I Like it. To respond to some of what others posted. I was told they can't go backwards in the programing and put in the old flash.If they try to program a new ECU ( or whatever name to use) that it will only take the current flash that FCA has out. I asked if I could get a ECU from a wrecked car and was told it would not work because it's not matched to the Vin number of the car. IDK. Fuman that's all above my head. Now the good news I hope. I stopped by and talked to my SVM today. He showed me a private mail from the Engineer that's working on this problem. This guy is smarter than an educated idiot. I'm not going to drop any names but I looked him up when I got home and I think we'll be ok. One thing that helped was the videos that Fuman posted and some other people on FB.
My SVM thinks it should be fixed by mid next week if not sooner. FCA is taking this seriously from what I read and they do watch the forums and know we're here. So let's keep the faith.
For Now.

Ive only had an unlocked PCM for my ScatPack and what you will need is your calibration and vin written to it, this will ensure everything works as expected.