"Project Demons Breath"

[motorhead]

If only there was some way to quantifiably measure a restriction and total air mass... if only.

 

[Hpindy]

If only there was some way to quantifiably measure a restriction and total air mass... if only.

Hmmm I'm going to look into this . The guy I use for porting stuff is big into air flow requirements, etc . I will see if he has a way to measure my air mass.

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[Hpindy]

In my opinion FCA did a great job designing the air box for a STOCK hellcat . I'm sure there is a little leeway . But once you go out side that volume( stock air box) wouldn't the stock air box become a restriction? I would like to try my stock 2018 air box on a stock redeye ...... That would be interested .

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[motorhead]

Hmmm I'm going to look into this . The guy I use for porting stuff is big into air flow requirements, etc . I will see if he has a way to measure my air mass.

If you can send me a Channel Config file with all of the scalars, states, and flags I am willing to bet I can find you something in HP Tuners.

I still need to buy the access cable so I can gain access to all of the special functions.

 

[Hpindy]

Did the stock box have a stock filter or K&N?

I have little doubt an aftermarket free flowing intake will make a little more power on a modified cat, but doubt there's any to be gained on a stock cat just because the engineers have already designed the stock box to flow enough air for the stock engine requirements.

Is it also possible that the LMI made more power since it was tested last and most likely when track conditions were cooler or were all of these tests done in the same ambient temp during the middle of the day?

The difference in temp and DA difference between the stock box and LMI varied by about 4F and 500DA . The 2 intakes were tested in about a 3 hour window . The whole test was done from 11:30 am to 4:30pm .

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[Hpindy]

If you can send me a Channel Config file with all of the scalars, states, and flags I am willing to bet I can find you something in HP Tuners.

I still need to buy the access cable so I can gain access to all of the special functions.

Do you have the software already?

 

[motorhead]

Do you have the software already?

Sure do. Been using it for almost a decade.

 

[Hpindy]

Sure do. Been using it for almost a decade.

awsome . cant you open up the vcm scanner and see all the options?

 

[motorhead]

awsome . cant you open up the vcm scanner and see all the options?

Not without the access cable installed. I get some pretty bare bones information when connected (basically what is seen in the Performance Pages gauges) - kind of irritating.

 

[Hpindy]

Not without the access cable installed. I get some pretty bare bones information when connected (basically what is seen in the Performance Pages gauges) - kind of irritating.

PM sent

 

[Hpindy]

On the camshaft ...... I bought the OST Dyno "standard" demon camshaft ( NOT the plus) . I bought it from Mike for 3 reasons
1 - the factory one was not available at the time
2- it's almost half the cost at OST
3- Mike has been awesome to me over the past 2 years( yes I bugged him BEFORE I got my car lol)

I'm super happy with it . I figure if SRT spent the money on designing a new camshaft for the demon to complement the supercharger then it's good enough for me .... Plus tuning would be pretty easy also . My base tune was with the factory calibrations .
Did I need a camshaft ? I don't know.... Did I want a camshaft ? DEFINITELY. Lol

( I posted this because a few people asked me about it )

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[hellno]

speedy in your logs does your iats go up or cool down during a pass

 

[Speedy!]

I have a demon supercharger(over driven 10%), demon cam, fastman throttle body. These will all lead to higher air flow requirements. Plus the 2.7L supercharger will run cooler IAT;s VS a over spun 2.4L at the same boost pressure.

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We should look at this last part since you and I are very similar.

I've checked a few logs from the track and here's some data to consider:

STOCK
In really cold temps like say 40 F the IAT was 69 degrees over ambient at 109 F after the burnout. This temp did NOT change from burnout to end of the 1/4 mile so there appears to be some minimum point the system will stabilize at.

In what I consider warm temps like say 80 F the IAT was 58 degrees over ambient at 138 F after the burnout. This temp ONLY changed by 4 F to 142 at the end of the 1/4 mile. In this case I actually had hot lap data to compare and on the THIRD back to back run the temps were 136 F and 140 F respectively so actually cooler on the third run and these were straight up hot lap right back to the staging lanes and go.

STOCK PLUS TUNE
Same day same track as the above stock data, I made some passes on a tune only from Mike@OST. What's of interest here are the increased cooling features implemented in the custom tune.

In warm 80 F ambient the IAT was 51 degrees over at 131 F after the burnout. at the end of the quarter they were 137 F. Hot lap (in the same log even) 133 F after burnout and 136 F at the end of the quarter.

2.4L supercharger with 2.72 Pulley = 16.5 psi on my car
In cool 55 degree air the IAT after the burnout was 111 F and 131 F at the end of the quarter mile so 76 F delta vs ambient compared to 69 F delta vs ambient stock. Not really that much difference considering the change in boost. This is with custom tune with improved cooling features however so compared to the stock with custom tune and same cooling features it's 56 F delta over ambient vs 76 F delta over ambient so say 20 F difference. Not bad considering the added boost.

2.4L supercharger with 2.72 Pulley on RE motor = 16.5 psi on my car
In hot miserable air of 93 F the IAT after the burnout was 126 F and 154 F at the end of the quarter mile with a delta over ambient of 61 F.

Another run in same hot miserable air IAT after the burnout was 140 F and 162 F at the end of the quarter mile with a delta over ambient of 69 F. This wasn't a hot lap, but not a cool down either. Staging lanes were crowded so however long it took to get back to the line firing the car to pull forward over and over.

Final run in 86 F the IAT after the burnout was 133 F and 154 F at the end of the quarter with a delta over ambient of 68 F. This run had a cool down.

With that data I think we can see the trend being that the SC cooling system sheds heat pretty well. My old Magnuson would get up to about 180 F in warm air at 15-16psi.

Curious what you see James with the larger blower?

 

[Hpindy]

We should look at this last part since you and I are very similar.

I've checked a few logs from the track and here's some data to consider:

STOCK
In really cold temps like say 40 F the IAT was 69 degrees over ambient at 109 F after the burnout. This temp did NOT change from burnout to end of the 1/4 mile so there appears to be some minimum point the system will stabilize at.

In what I consider warm temps like say 80 F the IAT was 58 degrees over ambient at 138 F after the burnout. This temp ONLY changed by 4 F to 142 at the end of the 1/4 mile. In this case I actually had hot lap data to compare and on the THIRD back to back run the temps were 136 F and 140 F respectively so actually cooler on the third run and these were straight up hot lap right back to the staging lanes and go.

STOCK PLUS TUNE
Same day same track as the above stock data, I made some passes on a tune only from Mike@OST. What's of interest here are the increased cooling features implemented in the custom tune.

In warm 80 F ambient the IAT was 51 degrees over at 131 F after the burnout. at the end of the quarter they were 137 F. Hot lap (in the same log even) 133 F after burnout and 136 F at the end of the quarter.

2.4L supercharger with 2.72 Pulley = 16.5 psi on my car
In cool 55 degree air the IAT after the burnout was 111 F and 131 F at the end of the quarter mile so 76 F delta vs ambient compared to 69 F delta vs ambient stock. Not really that much difference considering the change in boost. This is with custom tune with improved cooling features however so compared to the stock with custom tune and same cooling features it's 56 F delta over ambient vs 76 F delta over ambient so say 20 F difference. Not bad considering the added boost.

2.4L supercharger with 2.72 Pulley on RE motor = 16.5 psi on my car
In hot miserable air of 93 F the IAT after the burnout was 126 F and 154 F at the end of the quarter mile with a delta over ambient of 61 F.

Another run in same hot miserable air IAT after the burnout was 140 F and 162 F at the end of the quarter mile with a delta over ambient of 69 F. This wasn't a hot lap, but not a cool down either. Staging lanes were crowded so however long it took to get back to the line firing the car to pull forward over and over.

Final run in 86 F the IAT after the burnout was 133 F and 154 F at the end of the quarter with a delta over ambient of 68 F. This run had a cool down.

With that data I think we can see the trend being that the SC cooling system sheds heat pretty well. My old Magnuson would get up to about 180 F in warm air at 15-16psi.

Curious what you see James with the larger blower?

Fantastic info Speedy. I am going to the track Oct 13 . I'm adding a lot of new channels to my logs and I will make sure it is logging properly this time( my logs got screwed up somehow to a default channel set up) Im also going to run the intake test again so I can get more data on what's going on . This is all very interesting. I'm also trying to go to ATCO Nov. 2 for the modern Hemi meet for more data. I want to compare our fast track( Naperville in Quebec) to ATCO. I want to monitor airflow mass and temps along with my usual knock, fuel, etc . And yes out 2 cars are very similar so it would be a good test . Maybe next season we will have to meet at a track for head to head testing .

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[Hpindy]

We should look at this last part since you and I are very similar.

I've checked a few logs from the track and here's some data to consider:

STOCK
In really cold temps like say 40 F the IAT was 69 degrees over ambient at 109 F after the burnout. This temp did NOT change from burnout to end of the 1/4 mile so there appears to be some minimum point the system will stabilize at.

In what I consider warm temps like say 80 F the IAT was 58 degrees over ambient at 138 F after the burnout. This temp ONLY changed by 4 F to 142 at the end of the 1/4 mile. In this case I actually had hot lap data to compare and on the THIRD back to back run the temps were 136 F and 140 F respectively so actually cooler on the third run and these were straight up hot lap right back to the staging lanes and go.

STOCK PLUS TUNE
Same day same track as the above stock data, I made some passes on a tune only from Mike@OST. What's of interest here are the increased cooling features implemented in the custom tune.

In warm 80 F ambient the IAT was 51 degrees over at 131 F after the burnout. at the end of the quarter they were 137 F. Hot lap (in the same log even) 133 F after burnout and 136 F at the end of the quarter.

2.4L supercharger with 2.72 Pulley = 16.5 psi on my car
In cool 55 degree air the IAT after the burnout was 111 F and 131 F at the end of the quarter mile so 76 F delta vs ambient compared to 69 F delta vs ambient stock. Not really that much difference considering the change in boost. This is with custom tune with improved cooling features however so compared to the stock with custom tune and same cooling features it's 56 F delta over ambient vs 76 F delta over ambient so say 20 F difference. Not bad considering the added boost.

2.4L supercharger with 2.72 Pulley on RE motor = 16.5 psi on my car
In hot miserable air of 93 F the IAT after the burnout was 126 F and 154 F at the end of the quarter mile with a delta over ambient of 61 F.

Another run in same hot miserable air IAT after the burnout was 140 F and 162 F at the end of the quarter mile with a delta over ambient of 69 F. This wasn't a hot lap, but not a cool down either. Staging lanes were crowded so however long it took to get back to the line firing the car to pull forward over and over.

Final run in 86 F the IAT after the burnout was 133 F and 154 F at the end of the quarter with a delta over ambient of 68 F. This run had a cool down.

With that data I think we can see the trend being that the SC cooling system sheds heat pretty well. My old Magnuson would get up to about 180 F in warm air at 15-16psi.

Curious what you see James with the larger blower?

What is the exact channel name you are using . I will check some of my logs when I get home .

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[Speedy!]

Maybe next season we will have to meet at a track for head to head testing .

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There always seems to be a bounty on my head at ChallengerFest each year

 

[Speedy!]

What is the exact channel name you are using . I will check some of my logs when I get home .

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Aircharge Temperature is the one I use.

 

[Hpindy]

There always seems to be a bounty on my head at ChallengerFest each year

Lol , I will leave that up to the other guys . I was thinking more along the lines of same track, same day testing and comparing notes . So we can learn more about these cars .

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[Hpindy]

Aircharge Temperature is the one I use.

Ok . I just wanted to be on the same page . For comparing . Apple's to apples as they say .

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[Speedy!]

Put ChallengerFest on your schedule for 2020. It's the best place to see a lot of different combos on the same track same day. It'll be at Beech Bend Raceway in Bowling Green, KY. I'm working out dates with the track now but looking at the end of April or early May.