Dodge Redeyes

[Boris]

They make money on SXT's because it costs $0 in R&D and they make shotloads of them, the line just keeps running and they spit out cars without effort. It was a great effort for Dodge to develop the 170, lots of unique engine parts (did you see the Leno/Kuniskis vid?) All that $ and manpower could have been invested in products with a future (theoretically of course, personally I don't think Dodge has a future). I hope you guys are right, that the 170 components will be available through DC in the future, that would be very cool.

They make money on SXTs because it costs less than what they sell it for.

Otherwise, the car would have been canned a long time ago.

 

[Demoniccat]

They make money selling a 30k SXT Challenger.

Engine blocks are all cast. V8s might have a little more material but not much.
2 more cylinders to fill.
The performance engines probably get extra machine work. Again, minimal expense.
The 6.4L Ram trucks share parts with the 392 with Hellcat heads!
With so many shared parts, its not just 5k hellcat engines, its more like 100k engines or more (Ram sold 550k units total so im taking guess on the 100k 6.4Ls)

Beefed up rods/pistons are just that. The design didn't change.

Engineering for the software and e85 was likely the biggest cost in development.

IHI already had the blower designed for the Hellephant that was released a few years back.

Dev costs for the 170 are minimal at best.
I wouldnt be surprised if the D170 was 50-60% profit per unit for Dodge.

Agree, but there is a few more developed parts. Rear diff, axle half shafts, Drive shaft, Carbon fiber-alloy wheels

 

[Speedy!]

You guys know I live close to a major manufacturer and have several friends that work there. One told me he got a look at a BOM price sheet for a car that retails In the $45K range and it cost less than $20K to manufacture. That was very surprising to me as that's more than 100% margin.

 

[1971demon]

You guys know I live close to a major manufacturer and have several friends that work there. One told me he got a look at a BOM price sheet for a car that retails In the $45K range and it cost less than $20K to manufacture. That was very surprising to me as that's more than 100% margin.

I kinda find that hard to believe....if true Stelantis profits would have exceeded the 18 billion reported one would think...

 

[Speedy!]

Yeah it's surprising to me too and I don't have anyway to confirm. One thing is that it was stated as just materials and assembly didn't account for development, emissions cert, crash test, etc.

 

[2ndAmend]

You guys know I live close to a major manufacturer and have several friends that work there. One told me he got a look at a BOM price sheet for a car that retails In the $45K range and it cost less than $20K to manufacture. That was very surprising to me as that's more than 100% margin.

Be careful about these numbers, is it burdened or unburdened? Just making a profit is not enough for a corp to succeed. They need to have a strategy that puts them on a path to dominate their market segment, otherwise the competition will eat them up. HP parts are great for us, but they don’t make the shareholders (and BOD) wealthy.

I think Bobo is better off than 90% of Stellatis because the GP has been around since the Great War, it has gone through many corp owners and is still in great demand (I’ll buy one when the TJ dies), but the rest of Stellantis doesn't even register on my radar. I just hope they don’t fkup the one golden goose they have left.

 

[Blown7]

You guys know I live close to a major manufacturer and have several friends that work there. One told me he got a look at a BOM price sheet for a car that retails In the $45K range and it cost less than $20K to manufacture. That was very surprising to me as that's more than 100% margin.

I know for a fact back in 2019 my $101K window stickered Trackhawk cost the dealer $80K to purchase.
It's a long story but the dealer showed me the real paperwork. Not "invoice" some people may think...there is several layers below that the dealer actually pays.

So figure every $100K vehicle has 20 % profit baked in to the dealer.

 

[DavidKFla]

Well blow me down!!!

 

[Confuzed1]

You guys know I live close to a major manufacturer and have several friends that work there. One told me he got a look at a BOM price sheet for a car that retails In the $45K range and it cost less than $20K to manufacture. That was very surprising to me as that's more than 100% margin.

But doesn't BOM stand for "Bill Of Materials"?? Is it just the cost they pay for the materials used to build a car - or does it also take into account labor, and everything else? Interesting....

 

[Boris]

I kinda find that hard to believe....if true Stelantis profits would have exceeded the 18 billion reported one would think...

Big marketing budgets
R&D budget, especially for stuff that doesn't get built.
Capital expenses on all the factory stuff.
Tooling expenses when dies become bad and need replacing
Warranty expenses when something fails before the warranty period ends
Shipping cars to upfitter
Shipping on truck/rail
Kick backs to dealer
The cash on the hood or loss on finance when they offer 0% etc.

They probably piss away a shit load of money on R&D that never sees the light of day.
Not to mention the big contracts to UAW.

Someone is paying to keep the heat on at Belvidere etc

 

[Boris]

But doesn't BOM stand for "Bill Of Materials"?? Is it just the cost they pay for the materials used to build a car - or does it also take into account labor, and everything else? Interesting....

Typically a BOM will include labor and overhead but it depends.

 

[Boris]

I know for a fact back in 2019 my $101K window stickered Trackhawk cost the dealer $80K to purchase.
It's a long story but the dealer showed me the real paperwork. Not "invoice" some people may think...there is several layers below that the dealer actually pays.

So figure every $100K vehicle has 20 % profit baked in to the dealer.

FCA tells the dealer how much they can make.
Which is why we are seeing ADMs when the supply is constrained

 

[DavidKFla]

FCA tells the dealer how much they can make.
Which is why we are seeing ADMs when the supply is constrained

It's based on sales volume which dictates allocation. At least it was...

 

[1971demon]

Yeah it's surprising to me too and I don't have anyway to confirm. One thing is that it was stated as just materials and assembly didn't account for development, emissions cert, crash test, etc.

That would make sense...my guess..material costs pale in comparison to actual dollars spent to produce any vehicle..regardless of manufacturer

 

[Speedy!]

Yep, but "most" of the Challenger R&D costs have long since been recouped so the D170 I'd say has a pretty sizable margin at $96K or whatever it was. I doubt crash testing or any of that had to be done again, build process already sorted, etc.

 

[MikeD1]

I know for a fact back in 2019 my $101K window stickered Trackhawk cost the dealer $80K to purchase.
It's a long story but the dealer showed me the real paperwork. Not "invoice" some people may think...there is several layers below that the dealer actually pays.

So figure every $100K vehicle has 20 % profit baked in to the dealer.

Actually there are many 'delayed' rebates back to the dealers that don't happen until months after the vehicle has been sold (volume kickbacks, incentives for selling certain models/configurations etc. etc.). On any given car I doubt they know the true actual cost until the end of the MY.

Then there is all the added profit from the tag, prep & title fees they charge that cost the dealer very little & are mostly pure profit + plus any mandatory add-ons (paint protection, window etching, nitro tire fill etc.) + any ADM they tag you for.

You can be certain they are making huge $$ even selling the car at (what they call 'invoice') - 2 or 3% !!!

 

[MJS73]

G


As a kid my father took me to the AFL championship game in Buffalo War Memorial Stadium...we played Len Dawson and the KC Chiefs...had we won..we would have faced the Green Bay Packers for the first AFL/NFL championship game...(not yet called the Super Bowl)...do the math..that's how long I've been a fan...

Did you ever see Babe Ruth play?

 

[Boris]

Yep, but "most" of the Challenger R&D costs have long since been recouped so the D170 I'd say has a pretty sizable margin at $96K or whatever it was. I doubt crash testing or any of that had to be done again, build process already sorted, etc.

On the Leno review, Tim specifically said the hood couldn't be carbon fiber because the car would have to be crash tested again.

So they got to avoid doing that as well.

 

[DavidKFla]

On the Leno review, Tim specifically said the hood couldn't be carbon fiber because the car would have to be crash tested again.

So they got to avoid doing that as well.

The development costs has to be minimal for a project this size otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

[Bobo]

Yep, but "most" of the Challenger R&D costs have long since been recouped so the D170 I'd say has a pretty sizable margin at $96K or whatever it was. I doubt crash testing or any of that had to be done again, build process already sorted, etc.

On the Leno review, Tim specifically said the hood couldn't be carbon fiber because the car would have to be crash tested again.

So they got to avoid doing that as well.

This is also WHY they don't offer other tire options on the SS, if they changed and put let's say a MT on it even in the same size it would have to go through testing again.