Are we still in Driveshaft Purgatory?

[fubar569]

2018 Charger HC

Seen a couple product lines dropped entirely and a couple more experiencing lengthy delays in manufacturing...as well as rumors of a new 2 piece coming soon. Basically...not a good time to be shopping if it ain't broke.

I know a one piece will have a lower critical speed. I have had the car to about 175-180 exactly once. I DO daily the car every day in the summer. Stored winters. Power level is in the ballpark of 900rwhp. I will likely be running a 17" radial this year. NVH is somewhat important but my goal is really just to not get stranded with a blown shaft after a trip to mexico. ZERO. VIBRATION. It's a daily. Don't need that crap.

What are my current options besides a 3300 dollar MW shaft or a 1000 dollar DSS? I'm not against either one for the record. If it takes 3300 to get the job done and done right then I'll work a week off. If DSS or CCI can make my life great for a G...that's money for wheels & tires.

I'm going to try to make it down to see Curt in the spring sometime for a couple dyno runs and have Glasslife do the PC & Coating. The more we can knock out in one trip the better.

 

[motorhead]

LOL - do you really want to know what I think?

Frankly the aftermarket for these cars is rife with sensationalized BULLSHIT brought to you by the usual scumbags looking to separate you from your money (through fear or self-induced cognitive paralysis). Any Hellcat made after 2015 does not have a drive shaft deficiency from the factory. Demons and Redeyes having the best direct swap option if you ACTUALLY require an upgrade (beyond stock power).

Eighty five hundred cars allegedly got bad driveshafts in 2015 (a few got replaced) and then the lie of insufficient driveshaft strength perpetuated itself despite 30,000 more cars being built since. You only ever hear about the failures.

 

[Hpindy]

LOL - do you really want to know what I think?

Frankly the aftermarket for these cars is rife with sensationalized BULLSHIT brought to you by the usual scumbags looking to separate you from your money (through fear or self-induced cognitive paralysis). Any Hellcat made after 2015 does not have a drive shaft deficiency from the factory. Demons and Redeyes having the best direct swap option if you ACTUALLY require an upgrade (beyond stock power).

Eight five hundred cars allegedly got bad driveshafts, and then the lie of insufficient driveshaft strength perpetuated itself despite 30,000 more cars being built since. You only ever hear about the failures.

At what power level above stock would you determine the need for an aftermarket driveshaft ?

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[fubar569]

Yeah...I guess the demon/redeye shaft would be a nice upgrade...

You know...if I didn't have a CHARGER.

 

[motorhead]

At what power level above stock would you determine the need for an aftermarket driveshaft ?

Disclaimer: my wife is driving us to Montreal right now so I have time to kill with a long winded diatribe.

Admittedly I don't have enough experience to speak to that exact figure in this platform.

However, a full weight Hellcat with 25-30% more power (the typical advertised Hellcat Stage whogivesafuckeleventybillionwhorespowers package) is just a silly proposition for any stock drivetrain component. There is a fudge factor built into a stock HC or Redeye/Demon driveshaft based on the power potential of each drivetrain on the premise of reliability. Add any real power and it all goes out the window. There will always be outliers that fail in stock applications - such is the way of a mass produced part when used and abused. Driving style has as much to do with the potential to wreck shit as anything related to power.

The other issue with a large diameter aftermarket aluminum driveshaft (relative to the small diameter stock steel shaft) with the potential increased moment of inertia. If the weight comes out to nearly the same as stock it is most likely a NIL gain for powertrain losses. And then there is obviously the material strength and fatigue factors associated with each unit - the steel unit should be less prone to failure from instances of having its capacity exceeded from shock loading or wear (like harmonics generated from shitty driveline angle considerations).

A 4500+lb GT car is a bad starting point for an outright race car. As I have said before: race cars get race car parts. If you are building a Hellcat race car it gets put on a diet first to take the strain off of everything else. Addition by subtraction.

I can think of a bunch of ways I would spend my money to improve my HC before adding power and necessitating a driveshaft upgrade. It all starts with lower rotational mass at the point farthest from the crankshaft in the driveline, then the sprung mass gets peeled off with so many hundreds of pounds easily stripped away with seats, bumper bars, interior/trunk gutting, emptying the washer fluid, and that is just the easily reversable stuff. But, you know this @Hpindy. Then there are the more advanced modifications like intermittent fasting.

The problem is everyone wants their cake and to eat it too with their Hellcat. It is pure foolishness. But, I am just the "low option" guy who knowingly will end up gutting his car one day after years of racing it "as-is" as far as power goes - so no need to pay for weight penalty from the factory. I was actually shopping for a racing bucket last night, LOL. But, I digress...

Optimization is everything: the car and yourself. Use good judgment.

 

[Hpindy]

Disclaimer: my wife is driving us to Montreal right now so I have time to kill with a long winded diatribe.

Admittedly I don't have enough experience to speak to that exact figure in this platform.

However, a full weight Hellcat with 25-30% more power (the typical advertised Hellcat Stage whogivesafuckeleventybillionwhorespowers package) is just a silly proposition for any stock drivetrain component. There is a fudge factor built into a stock HC or Redeye/Demon driveshaft based on the power potential of each drivetrain on the premise of reliability. Add any real power and it all goes out the window. There will always be outliers that fail in stock applications - such is the way of a mass produced part when used and abused. Driving style has as much to do with the potential to wreck shit as anything related to power.

The other issue with a large diameter aftermarket aluminum driveshaft (relative to the small diameter stock steel shaft) with the potential increased moment of inertia. If the weight comes out to nearly the same as stock it is most likely a NIL gain for powertrain losses. And then there is obviously the material strength and fatigue factors associated with each unit - the steel unit should be less prone to failure from instances of having its capacity exceeded from shock loading or wear (like harmonics generated from shitty driveline angle considerations).

A 4500+lb GT car is a bad starting point for an outright race car. As I have said before: race cars get race car parts. If you are building a Hellcat race car it gets put on a diet first to take the strain off of everything else. Addition by subtraction.

I can think of a bunch of ways I would spend my money to improve my HC before adding power and necessitating a driveshaft upgrade. It all starts with lower rotational mass at the point farthest from the crankshaft in the driveline, then the sprung mass gets peeled off with so many hundreds of pounds easily stripped away with seats, bumper bars, interior/trunk gutting, emptying the washer fluid, and that is just the easily reversable stuff. But, you know this @Hpindy. Then there are the more advanced modifications like intermittent fasting.

The problem is everyone wants their cake and to eat it too with their Hellcat. It is pure foolishness. But, I am just the "low option" guy who knowingly will end up gutting his car one day after years of racing it "as-is" as far as power goes - so no need to pay for weight penalty from the factory. I was actually shopping for a racing bucket last night, LOL. But, I digress...

Optimization is everything: the car and yourself. Use good judgment.

Unfortunately not everyone is a car guy and must rely on shops . Or there is not many choices available at a given time. Or simple lack of knowledge .

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[Hemituner]

I am testing a 2 piece carbon now. We have been through a couple of revisions, so far so good
Thanks
AJ

 

[motorhead]

Unfortunately not everyone is a car guy and must rely on shops . Or there is not many choices available at a given time. Or simple lack of knowledge .

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Yup. A lot of factors in play.

The funny thing is a 10% increase in these cars is in the range of 70 to 100 horsepower.

70 to 100!

The threshold for the point when stuff starts breaking is really low when you consider the starting point is a minimum 707 factory rated horsepower and 650ft/lbs of torque.

 

[motorhead]

I am testing a 2 piece carbon now. We have been through a couple of revisions, so far so good
Thanks
AJ

$2000+ retail, right?

 

[hellno]

I HEARD THE MARK WILLIAMS SHAFT IS LIKE 3000,I HAVE THE CCI ,WITH THE 2.62 NO VIBRATIONS ,BUT WITH THE 3.09 AFTER BOUT 125 YOU CAN FEEL THE VIBRATION AND ITS MORE NOTICEABLE ON DECEL ,AS FOR MY STOCK SHAFT BECAUSE I HEARD OF THEM TWISTING LIKE A PRETZEL ,I BOUGHT A DRIVESHAFT BUT MOTORHEAD IS RIGHT THE DEMONS ARE RUNNING 9S WITH THE STOCK SHAFT AND I,M NOT HEARING ABOUT THEM BREAKING
IF I WAS LOOKING FOR A SHAFT ID CONTACT CCI DIRECTLY BECAUSE THEY MAKE THEM FOR LIVERNOIS AND IM SURE THEY GET A BETTER DEAL THEN WE DO ,BUT ID BET CCI WOULD WANT TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE PROFIT FROM SELLING IT DIRECTLY TO YOU ,I BOUGHT MINE FROM CCI DIRECTLY AND GOT IT IN A WEEK AFTER LIVERNOISE TOLD ME ID HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH,I CHECK MY SHAFT BEFORE EVERY RACE ,I ALSO CHECKED IT AGAIN DURING THIS TRANS REBUILD ,NO SIGNS OF STREES OR CRACKS ANYWHERE

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

Winter and sub zero temps all of a sudden look good.

I am testing a 2 piece carbon now. We have been through a couple of revisions, so far so good
Thanks
AJ

Interested in this for sure!

 

[fubar569]

I am testing a 2 piece carbon now. We have been through a couple of revisions, so far so good
Thanks
AJ

Is this gonna be available for charger as well?

 

[motorhead]

Why not just use chromoly and retain stock OD dimensions? Not as sexy as aluminum or composites, or as expensive (gotta make muh points!).

 

[FLYIN4D]

Subscribing..........

I’m AT the crossroads right now and I’m going to wait until CCI comes out with their new design before I move forward with purchasing a Wiles shaft. I don’t want to do it, but I’ll order a MW if it comes down to it. I can’t believe there are all these issues with aftermarket driveshafts for these cars, especially for the amount of fucking money that is spent for one. I’ve always run the top of the line MW shafts in my other cars, so I won’t hesitate to do it for this HellCat. Doesn’t matter what HP level either, I just want to make certain I have something underneath me that isn’t going to leave me stranded, tear up my car or kill me!

Question #1. Does the Demon and RedEye cars share the exact same driveshaft as all 2016-newer HC’s regardless whether A8 or M6?

Question #2. Has anyone actually taken their HC to a local reputable driveshaft shop to see if they can or would be willing to build one? Could bring them some souls business.

 

[oilburner]

Subscribing..........

I’m AT the crossroads right now and I’m going to wait until CCI comes out with their new design before I move forward with purchasing a Wiles shaft. I don’t want to do it, but I’ll order a MW if it comes down to it. I can’t believe there are all these issues with aftermarket driveshafts for these cars, especially for the amount of fucking money that is spent for one. I’ve always run the top of the line MW shafts in my other cars, so I won’t hesitate to do it for this HellCat. Doesn’t matter what HP level either, I just want to make certain I have something underneath me that isn’t going to leave me stranded, tear up my car or kill me!

Question #1. Does the Demon and RedEye cars share the exact same driveshaft as all 2016-newer HC’s regardless whether A8 or M6?

Question #2. Has anyone actually taken their HC to a local reputable driveshaft shop to see if they can or would be willing to build one? Could bring them some souls business.

believe the demon , redeye is thicker wall material .

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

I HEARD THE MARK WILLIAMS SHAFT IS LIKE 3000,I HAVE THE CCI ,WITH THE 2.62 NO VIBRATIONS ,BUT WITH THE 3.09 AFTER BOUT 125 YOU CAN FEEL THE VIBRATION AND ITS MORE NOTICEABLE ON DECEL ,AS FOR MY STOCK SHAFT BECAUSE I HEARD OF THEM TWISTING LIKE A PRETZEL ,I BOUGHT A DRIVESHAFT BUT MOTORHEAD IS RIGHT THE DEMONS ARE RUNNING 9S WITH THE STOCK SHAFT AND I,M NOT HEARING ABOUT THEM BREAKING
IF I WAS LOOKING FOR A SHAFT ID CONTACT CCI DIRECTLY BECAUSE THEY MAKE THEM FOR LIVERNOIS AND IM SURE THEY GET A BETTER DEAL THEN WE DO ,BUT ID BET CCI WOULD WANT TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE PROFIT FROM SELLING IT DIRECTLY TO YOU ,I BOUGHT MINE FROM CCI DIRECTLY AND GOT IT IN A WEEK AFTER LIVERNOISE TOLD ME ID HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH,I CHECK MY SHAFT BEFORE EVERY RACE ,I ALSO CHECKED IT AGAIN DURING THIS TRANS REBUILD ,NO SIGNS OF STREES OR CRACKS ANYWHERE

I was just reading info from Mark William's on gear and tire ratios + the Fact he thinks the Ford 9 inch rear is an Ultimate choice.

Linda

 

[hellno]

I WILL NOT GO TO A 9 INCH CONVERSION ,,

 

[FLYIN4D]

They should've just put a solid axle Dana 60 in these cars to begin with! The IRS is nice, but Ma Mopar knew people were going to give these cars more HP!

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

I had one of the 1st ones in my 2010 Furious Fuchsia Challenger. A Kenne Bell build .
It held up well the axels got replaced under warranty numerous times.
Top Cat has a 9 inch rear.
If you want to be able to have the rear handle the torque and RWHP a 9 inch does well.

At my power level I don't need one.

But there are alot more suspension mods now than there were in 2010 and we had a Getrag and a Nag1 uggggh!!!!

Linda

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

They should've just put a solid axle Dana 60 in these cars to begin with! The IRS is nice, but Ma Mopar knew people were going to give these cars more HP!

Of course they did and that's why we get to modify our HCs