Poll who here thinks the announcement of the SRT Brand being Dead creates a buying frenzy for the Hellcats?

[ChargerChallenger]

I am intrigued to know who else here feels once the knowledge of the SRT brand being killed from the new merger between FCA and Peugeot will create strong sales of the Hellcats.

 

[BULL]

Like @TrackDay said, the SRT name isn't dead.

However, I'm of the opinion that, at least for now, the spirit of the division is DEAD.

I bet $2.50 that IF it sticks around it ends up being nothing more than an eye-level trim package deal.

Of course there will be SOME retention of the existing design efforts I'm sure. But I still say this is being driven by the pressure on the O.E.s to produce EVs, made worse by the current regime's statement of rejoining the PBA and the general Liberal agenda.

I've changed my vote in the other thread to MY22 being the last HC/RE year, and I bet we'll get a sense for that as the MY21 availability plays out. If we start to hear that MY21 isn't REALLY available, then that could very well be our clue that "mostly dead" is "really dead"...

 

[DGatzby]

Like he said it won’t be the enthusiasts. I can see them keeping the badge on the performance models. But, people are going to begin to hold on to what they have. It is not going to make them real valuable or anything soon, but I think the market prices both used especially, and maybe new firm a bit.

 

[thetalonguy]

This $hit is really throwing a wrench into my plans. Not sure if I should just gobble up and settle on any, old used one now/immediately. The delay, or end of the 6M, plus the chip shortage may send prices skyrocketing.

They like to come after my favorite things...cars, firearms...if alcohol is next, then do me in now.

 

[ChargerChallenger]

Peugeot is like the new administration lots of stories😁. The truths and or should I say lies shall prevail😳

 

[Paladin06]

I’ll keep my girls regardless.

 

[why2kmax]

Like @TrackDay said, the SRT name isn't dead.

However, I'm of the opinion that, at least for now, the spirit of the division is DEAD.

I bet $2.50 that IF it sticks around it ends up being nothing more than an eye-level trim package deal.

Of course there will be SOME retention of the existing design efforts I'm sure. But I still say this is being driven by the pressure on the O.E.s to produce EVs, made worse by the current regime's statement of rejoining the PBA and the general Liberal agenda.

I've changed my vote in the other thread to MY22 being the last HC/RE year, and I bet we'll get a sense for that as the MY21 availability plays out. If we start to hear that MY21 isn't REALLY available, then that could very well be our clue that "mostly dead" is "really dead"...

Random pessimistic thoughts:

I agree with Bull on this. The "election" of the current admin and its lunacy to destroy every bit of cheap available energy, with the US moving back into the insanely restrictive PCA moved this decision forward sooner rather than later.

There is NO WAY SRT is able to continue to develop high hp performance cars when you take the established subject matter experts and enthusiasts and scatter them to the wind. "The future is EV", was always pushed hard but they are all in now. Conform or be punished. Im sure Stellantis will keep investing $$ in adding hybrid power to trucks and Jeeps, but will they spend the $$ to add it to the muscle cars to keep them alive? Maybe, but less likely. Ram and Jeep tank CAFE as much or more than Dodge but likely bring in more $$$.

Either way I see them wringing every penny out of the SRT badge and heritage to the point it becomes relatively meaningless as R/T is now. Just another sales gimmick like chevy's SS was in the recent past .

Maybe they'd create another group to develop the next gen car, but lets face it, this is dodge, not BMW or Benz. R&D costs a ton of $$$. Takeover companies often look for quick turnaround on their $$ and aren't likely to dump a lot more of it into a niche market that doesnt have a positive impact to their bottom line or image worldwide. M series stuff can continue to be designed and advanced, and built and will trickle down a bit through the line because they have a large group of luxury minded customers worldwide that will pay $150-200K for a vehicle and keep doing it. Dodge doesnt have that, or the brand Cache that BMW or even Jeep does to attract the necessary customers with deep pockets. I dont see a business case for them to continue to build these cars, tank their CAFE numbers forcing them to pay more $$ to buy carbon credits (yet another fking scam) Redeye, Superstock and T-REX may end up being the last hurrah.

The other variable is we have no idea how far along SRT was with the challenger/charger redesign. Maybe enough that it makes sense to keep it going and earn some $$ capitalizing on whats there or shelving it altogether. The continued kicking the can down the road 21 then 22 then 23 then......? gives me the feeling that if they disbanded the SRT group, it will never see the light of day.

Having said that, the platform is so old and long paid for that they may keep the line open for a number of years with wheel and color changes if it makes them enough money (or have they already done that?). Just like Yamaha did with the Vmax for both generations. Gen 1 went 1985-2007 with nothing but color changes after 1990, and Gen 2 went 2009-2020 with just color changes, and that even stopped after 2017. But even then, the customer based dwindled, the bikes MSRP at $18000 was on the high end of the spectrum for a one trick pony, the engine could no longer meet EU emissions standards so it was only sold in the US and Canada for 2019 and 2020 but the market wasnt there and they killed it.

This year will likely tell the tale. Sure there are parts availability problems that are supposidly limiting production but when that is fixed (or is it just an excuse), and we dont see them producing the cars in numbers that CAN sell, Id say thats a decision to end it, while making the last of them so exclusive and hard to get that people start fighting over them with their dollars like seaguls on a french fry.

Collectibility? Hellcats and SRTs will jump in price and they will hold value in the short term (10-15 years or so?) but long term, (30-40+ yrs) for them to do what previous peformance cars have done dollar wise, they will need an audience and a fan base and easy access to gasoline. Once that large fan base moves through the snake and dies, the cars will be worth comparatively very little other than maybe the milestone Demon. Shoebox Chevys routinely brought six figures and some still do. I love 55s and very much appreciate the history and styling, but at 54, I could give a Fk about owning one. They werent my era. Id pay way more for a 68-74 Mopar B or E body or anything from GM of that era before shelling out a ton of $$ for something from the 40s and 50s. As generations age their desires for cars dwindles and becomes focused on a certain segment.

Look at kids who are Driving age now and in their 20s, I see the majority have ZERO passion for cars in general let alone the future means to pay $70-100K+ for a car and those behind them are being taught to hate fossil fuels and the like. Thats your customer base for these cars in the long run.

Where will that be in 2050-2060. Will there be outrageous taxes on those "polluters" Will insurance rates skyrocket if you want to God forbid manually DRIVE one and its not controlled by some AI helper so that you are far more at risk of hitting and harming Karen or her bubble wrapped kid in their self driving apple car?

I dont know, unless something changes to right the ship in the next 5-10 years I dont see it happening. Happy to be proven wrong. PLEASE tell me I'm wrong

 

[greasy]

It’ll be interesting to see what happens. Remember when Ford dissolved SVT back in 2006? Look at what Ford is doing now.

 

[Speedy!]

Where's the "no nor is there much life left" option?

 

[why2kmax]

At Stellantis, we are committed to contributing to a decarbonized economy by engaging our talents and assets on our road to carbon neutrality across our products, plants and other facilities. We offer our customers freedom of movement through sustainable mobility solutions that leverage on our leadership in clean and advanced technologies and support us in fighting climate change. As of Day One, Stellantis has 29 electrified models available to consumers.

We take the 2030 United Nations Sustainable Development Goals as a framework for our actions in the transition to a more sustainable future.

Dodge boys gonna fit in that mix like Archie Bunker at a Gratefull Dead concert... Or Donald Trump at a Nanci Pelosi California Dinner party...

 

[Slowpoke387]

Random pessimistic thoughts:

I agree with Bull on this. The "election" of the current admin and its lunacy to destroy every bit of cheap available energy, with the US moving back into the insanely restrictive PCA moved this decision forward sooner rather than later.

There is NO WAY SRT is able to continue to develop high hp performance cars when you take the established subject matter experts and enthusiasts and scatter them to the wind. "The future is EV", was always pushed hard but they are all in now. Conform or be punished. Im sure Stellantis will keep investing $$ in adding hybrid power to trucks and Jeeps, but will they spend the $$ to add it to the muscle cars to keep them alive? Maybe, but less likely. Ram and Jeep tank CAFE as much or more than Dodge but likely bring in more $$$.

Either way I see them wringing every penny out of the SRT badge and heritage to the point it becomes relatively meaningless as R/T is now. Just another sales gimmick like chevy's SS was in the recent past .

Maybe they'd create another group to develop the next gen car, but lets face it, this is dodge, not BMW or Benz. R&D costs a ton of $$$. Takeover companies often look for quick turnaround on their $$ and aren't likely to dump a lot more of it into a niche market that doesnt have a positive impact to their bottom line or image worldwide. M series stuff can continue to be designed and advanced, and built and will trickle down a bit through the line because they have a large group of luxury minded customers worldwide that will pay $150-200K for a vehicle and keep doing it. Dodge doesnt have that, or the brand Cache that BMW or even Jeep does to attract the necessary customers with deep pockets. I dont see a business case for them to continue to build these cars, tank their CAFE numbers forcing them to pay more $$ to buy carbon credits (yet another fking scam) Redeye, Superstock and T-REX may end up being the last hurrah.

The other variable is we have no idea how far along SRT was with the challenger/charger redesign. Maybe enough that it makes sense to keep it going and earn some $$ capitalizing on whats there or shelving it altogether. The continued kicking the can down the road 21 then 22 then 23 then......? gives me the feeling that if they disbanded the SRT group, it will never see the light of day.

Having said that, the platform is so old and long paid for that they may keep the line open for a number of years with wheel and color changes if it makes them enough money (or have they already done that?). Just like Yamaha did with the Vmax for both generations. Gen 1 went 1985-2007 with nothing but color changes after 1990, and Gen 2 went 2009-2020 with just color changes, and that even stopped after 2017. But even then, the customer based dwindled, the bikes MSRP at $18000 was on the high end of the spectrum for a one trick pony, the engine could no longer meet EU emissions standards so it was only sold in the US and Canada for 2019 and 2020 but the market wasnt there and they killed it.

This year will likely tell the tale. Sure there are parts availability problems that are supposidly limiting production but when that is fixed (or is it just an excuse), and we dont see them producing the cars in numbers that CAN sell, Id say thats a decision to end it, while making the last of them so exclusive and hard to get that people start fighting over them with their dollars like seaguls on a french fry.

Collectibility? Hellcats and SRTs will jump in price and they will hold value in the short term (10-15 years or so?) but long term, (30-40+ yrs) for them to do what previous peformance cars have done dollar wise, they will need an audience and a fan base and easy access to gasoline. Once that large fan base moves through the snake and dies, the cars will be worth comparatively very little other than maybe the milestone Demon. Shoebox Chevys routinely brought six figures and some still do. I love 55s and very much appreciate the history and styling, but at 54, I could give a Fk about owning one. They werent my era. Id pay way more for a 68-74 Mopar B or E body or anything from GM of that era before shelling out a ton of $$ for something from the 40s and 50s. As generations age their desires for cars dwindles and becomes focused on a certain segment.

Look at kids who are Driving age now and in their 20s, I see the majority have ZERO passion for cars in general let alone the future means to pay $70-100K+ for a car and those behind them are being taught to hate fossil fuels and the like. Thats your customer base for these cars in the long run.

Where will that be in 2050-2060. Will there be outrageous taxes on those "polluters" Will insurance rates skyrocket if you want to God forbid manually DRIVE one and its not controlled by some AI helper so that you are far more at risk of hitting and harming Karen or her bubble wrapped kid in their self driving apple car?

I dont know, unless something changes to right the ship in the next 5-10 years I dont see it happening. Happy to be proven wrong. PLEASE tell me I'm wrong

Election really had very little impact. Everyone loves to place blame there but in reality EV's were coming regardless. Anyone blaming the election is being extremely short sighted and blatantly ignoring the trending auto industry as a whole. The writing was on the wall deep into the last administration and either keeping or switching that out was never going to change the ending. The future was coming and is just about here.
The timing of the newer generations losing interest in ICE V-8 powered muscle works in the coming EV's advantage perfectly. There will be a new type of muscle along with a new type of end user. No one but us aging nostalgic muscle lovers care about 68-74 Mopar B cars anymore. It's a dying passion. How fitting that we are now the dinosaurs scrambling to hold on to fossil fueled fun.

 

[why2kmax]

Election really had very little impact. Everyone loves to place blame there but in reality EV's were coming regardless. Anyone blaming the election is being extremely short sighted and blatantly ignoring the trending auto industry as a whole. The writing was on the wall deep into the last administration and either keeping or switching that out was never going to change the ending. The future was coming and is just about here.
The timing of the newer generations losing interest in ICE V-8 powered muscle works in the coming EV's advantage perfectly. There will be a new type of muscle along with a new type of end user. No one but us aging nostalgic muscle lovers care about 68-74 Mopar B cars anymore. It's a dying passion. How fitting that we are now the dinosaurs scrambling to hold on to fossil fueled fun.

I'll agree it was coming and it wasnt going to be stopped, but you cant disagree that Biden being put in office and the dems taking congress, have immensely hastened the end. Had it gone the other way, we would NOT be ending the keystone pipeline OR banning fracking OR limiting ourselves with the insanity of the Paris accords. We would be largely energy independant,with low energy prices and That would have easily bought ICE probably 10+ more years of joyfull manufacturing bliss. Now, Id bet most mfrs are definitely going ahead with EV full bore vs a more measured approach. Tech Giants stand to gain immensely from this switch. The sooner the better for them and the more $$$$ they make. Follow the $$

 

[ChargerChallenger]

Has anyone looked at New Hellcat Inventory lately? You should make a mental note on inventory and then see how it looks over the next few months. That will be the true market direction. And I feel once dealers here of the news and start to figure out whats going on the ADM's will be back and inventory will be less.

 

[Magnified]

No buying frenzy.... not sure the SRT is dead thing is meaningful to the general public. Until they say NO MORE HELLCATS I think the market will totter along unphased.

 

[Mike L.]

Remember this?

 

[MikeD1]

Remember this?

A friend of mine actually bought one of those, what a turd it was - all show & no go !!

 

[why2kmax]

Most everything from 74-75 onward was all show and no go. Sticker packages ruled the performance market.

 

[Speedy!]

And it lasted a long time. When did power start coming back? 5.0 Mustangs were like 200hp. Maybe like 2002 or 2004?

 

[EricG]

There will not be another performance lapse like in the past, hod rods are selling too well to get rid of them. Cars will just evolve like they always have IMO

 

[why2kmax]

And it lasted a long time. When did power start coming back? 5.0 Mustangs were like 200hp. Maybe like 2002 or 2004?

For GM around 94/95 when the LT1 came out i the Fbody and B-body cars. 260-275 hp, ram air cars were 305-ish I think. Mustangs definitely lagged behind, 99 they got 260 hp motors. 300+ for the cobra. It was a long drought