Which Engine & Blower to build, what are your thoughts?

[Dman007]

I have been going back and forth on which engine to build this offseason...411, 426, 428 or something else. And then which blower to add.

What are your thoughts on what is the best combination out there?

Btw, this car is for drag racing and then in the offseason, Sunday driving.

Goal is to run low 8's and maybe touch 7's in a Charger HC.

Regards,
Colby

 

[Marc W]

Are you planning on meeting any of the NHRA requirements to do that? While many tracks are willing to allow nine seconds with our late model cars, at some point it actually does become a sanity question at the eight second (let alone seven second) level. A 7.5 cert cage is required to run under 8.5 and it is whole other level in complexity and expense.

 

[DMNkilr]

I second the thoughts on safety equipment, having at least an 8.5 cage seems like a minimum for what you're thinking. Those sorts of numbers will require a very integrated build to reliably handle that kind of power. Hell, you put down 400+ passes this year? You know all this (35 weekends!?, you lucky dog).
As far as the powertrain goes, there are a lot good combos:
Bore and stroke to 426-428 and add Kenne Bell + nitrous (7.48 Eplings), New Gen 5 Whipple (lot of potential), Hellion compounds (Southernminncat and his 1300+ HP), or just go a twin turbo route. Could be done with a Magnuson as well. All depends on what you like, and who you want to work with.

 

[Speedy!]

Building a race car is one thing, building a low 8 to high 7 second street strip car is a different animal. I've only seen a couple over the years that pulled that off and they weren't in the Dodge platform unfortunately.

All safety equipment aside you'll have to find a combo that you can turn up at the track, and turn down for the streetj obviously. A motor built for nitrous is one way to skin the cat, but it'll take a considerable amount on a couple kits probably. Those types of cars seem to be hit or miss as well on making full passes when a lot of nitrous is used and track maintenance seems to go up exponentially as well.

Turbo setups are what I've seen be successful on other platforms but the packaging was a lot simpler on those cars than ours (1970 Nova that won SCT when I was there). Dan VanHorn has a pretty nice twin turbo setup that runs these times, but it's a full on race car as I'm sure you've seen.

I'll be watching and living vicariously through you on the journey and look forward to what you come up with.

 

[Dman007]

You guys are killing me LOL!! We will get a 10 point cage install this off season, but most of the tracks do not require a cage where we race.

Discussion is about engine & blower...which combinations do you recommend?

 

[DMNkilr]

428 + KB 4.9 topped off with a little nitrous

 

[Speedy!]

Last guy I knew that ran a 4.9L KB had to lock the bypass open on the street. Maybe fine if the motor makes enough power NA for the "Sunday cruise" LOL but something to keep in mind. Once a cage goes in, no longer a Sunday driver though IMO.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

Do not run a Kenne Bell unless you want to invest lots more $$$$$ getting the power to the ground.
I know and my husband did invest but you will not have a daily driver. Really once you are shooting for the 8s get your license and "suck it up "decide your HC is a race car!
That's what my husband said to me upon getting a shoot

 

[Dman007]

We can load different tunes in our cars, change the tires and still drive around on the street.

The roll cages come with pins to take out the door bars. So when DD, remove the door bars.

But interesting about the Kenny Bell route...need to research more. Thank you @DMNkilr and @Linda's Hell Cat.

I do like the 428 idea because not too many people in our community running that engine.

NOTE: We have tons of tracks around us that are not NHRA and thank god. So no licenses nor cages.

 

[Speedy!]

The nice thing about the Hellcat platform is it's pretty easy to make them fast and you can retain all the streetability if you don't get too crazy. I've never ridden in a car with a cage, even one with removable door bars, that I'd wanna spend much time in riding around. Lots of rattles and squeeks unfortunately. I've seen your car and it's extremely fast to still be a street car, which no doubt it is. Knocking off another 8/10th is a lot at your level though.

Here's what I've learned over the years on the engine. Keep it simple and don't do anything exotic. Better yet interview the shops you're considering as the builder and tell them what your goals are and let them design the engine to meet them. I've seen folks make the mistake if dictating what parts, c.i., etc go in an engine and end up chasing their tails and spending a lot of extra money after the fact because it's either un-reliable, or doesn't run well. I'm assuming you're hiring that out, if you're skilled at building engines and doing it yourself dis-regard. Obviously the stroke in the engine matters when you're talking about boost or nitrous hits and what seems to work well and live is something in the 416 c.i. range for a HEMI. Doing something exotic just means there's no parts on the shelf and when there is a problem you're down longer. Poking in some base numbers in a random calculator says you're gonna need about 1500rwhp assuming the car weighs 4500 lbs.

The bigger question is what are you gonna do with suspension to get it to the ground? Some kind of coil over setup probably so you can have settings for street and strip?

@zhc is running low 8s I believe in his Charger and can likely chime in.

 

[vortecd]

These hemi's make power, it is the weight holding them up. Everyone likes to put chevy engines in mustangs, I thought why not a hemi? Think of all the fast mustangs out there and some are less then 3,000 lbs.

 

[Marc W]

The nice thing about the Hellcat platform is it's pretty easy to make them fast and you can retain all the streetability if you don't get too crazy. I've never ridden in a car with a cage, even one with removable door bars, that I'd wanna spend much time in riding around. Lots of rattles and squeeks unfortunately. I've seen your car and it's extremely fast to still be a street car, which no doubt it is. Knocking off another 8/10th is a lot at your level though.

Here's what I've learned over the years on the engine. Keep it simple and don't do anything exotic. Better yet interview the shops you're considering as the builder and tell them what your goals are and let them design the engine to meet them. I've seen folks make the mistake if dictating what parts, c.i., etc go in an engine and end up chasing their tails and spending a lot of extra money after the fact because it's either un-reliable, or doesn't run well. I'm assuming you're hiring that out, if you're skilled at building engines and doing it yourself dis-regard. Obviously the stroke in the engine matters when you're talking about boost or nitrous hits and what seems to work well and live is something in the 416 c.i. range for a HEMI. Doing something exotic just means there's no parts on the shelf and when there is a problem you're down longer. Poking in some base numbers in a random calculator says you're gonna need about 1500rwhp assuming the car weighs 4500 lbs.

The bigger question is what are you gonna do with suspension to get it to the ground? Some kind of coil over setup probably so you can have settings for street and strip?

@zhc is running low 8s I believe in his Charger and can likely chime in.

“The bigger question”.... also takes near 300 lbs out of the car and costs close to a optimized DSS/Gforce 9” rear with all the good stuff.

 

[Speedy!]

Right, I've been following your thread. Will the ride be something you can drive around on the street with? I can't see what the shocks are there. Means a gas tank change as well I think.

 

[Marc W]

Right, I've been following your thread. Will the ride be something you can drive around on the street with? I can't see what the shocks are there. Means a gas tank change as well I think.

Yes the gas tank gets relocated into the trunk. I’m using a 15 gallon custom aluminum tank with a sump and external fuel pump. Internal pump systems are a option also. The 15 gallon size keeps it level with the top of the tire well and no cutting is necessary. This size would allow me to cover it if I want and you wouldn’t even know it’s there. Mine compared to another that is larger and using a Holly internal system.

 

[Marc W]

This is the 2015 DragPak setup. It uses independent springs that come in different weights that are interchangeable. We’re using heavier springs than were used in the lighter Dragpaks. The shocks are Strange manual adjustables. I don’t think the ride is going to be a issue for normal around town driving along as you keep the cornering within what a purpose built drag car might be expected to do.

 

[Dman007]

The nice thing about the Hellcat platform is it's pretty easy to make them fast and you can retain all the streetability if you don't get too crazy. I've never ridden in a car with a cage, even one with removable door bars, that I'd wanna spend much time in riding around. Lots of rattles and squeeks unfortunately. I've seen your car and it's extremely fast to still be a street car, which no doubt it is. Knocking off another 8/10th is a lot at your level though.

Here's what I've learned over the years on the engine. Keep it simple and don't do anything exotic. Better yet interview the shops you're considering as the builder and tell them what your goals are and let them design the engine to meet them. I've seen folks make the mistake if dictating what parts, c.i., etc go in an engine and end up chasing their tails and spending a lot of extra money after the fact because it's either un-reliable, or doesn't run well. I'm assuming you're hiring that out, if you're skilled at building engines and doing it yourself dis-regard. Obviously the stroke in the engine matters when you're talking about boost or nitrous hits and what seems to work well and live is something in the 416 c.i. range for a HEMI. Doing something exotic just means there's no parts on the shelf and when there is a problem you're down longer. Poking in some base numbers in a random calculator says you're gonna need about 1500rwhp assuming the car weighs 4500 lbs.

The bigger question is what are you gonna do with suspension to get it to the ground? Some kind of coil over setup probably so you can have settings for street and strip?

@zhc is running low 8s I believe in his Charger and can likely chime in.

Speedy,
I'm the money man and driver Not turning too many wrenches here. LOL!
As far as shops, I partner with Allpar Garage and they have over 40 years experience in MOPAR. Thus I'm in great hands.

But I am going up to Dave's shop tomorrow in Memphis and we are calling Jake with "Sampson Racing Engines" and asking about his 428 long block.

Anyone have any experience with Jake?

 

[Dman007]

This is the 2015 DragPak setup. It uses independent springs that come in different weights that are interchangeable. We’re using heavier springs than were used in the lighter Dragpaks. The shocks are Strange manual adjustables. I don’t think the ride is going to be a issue for normal around town driving along as you keep the cornering writhing what a purpose built drag car might be expected to do. View attachment 31159 View attachment 31160

Marc - really impressed. That is a ton of great knowledge and sharing. I will make sure to share my build as well and would like to get your input.

Question: how much whp do you think our OEM IRS can hold before going to a 9"?

 

[Dman007]

@Speedy! As far as how to get the power to the ground. That is a topic Allpar Garage (Jimmy and Carlos) will decide next week or continue our discussions.

To my understanding, Z is still running OEM IRS, but has traction issues sometimes. Do not know if that is track prep or rear suspension or something else.

 

[Primetime Hellcat 17]

Are you going all out on the block? Best of the best... Aluminum ?
Not trying to bash the KB but I’ve heard nothing but garbage about that SC. I know they run really hot & a pain inthe ass to tune if you run the big boy dual TB.
check out Alex at Better Built Performance.
He built my 426 and Marc’s as well.
Dam this is going to be a awesome build. I will be following this for sure.

 

[Marc W]

Marc - really impressed. That is a ton of great knowledge and sharing. I will make sure to share my build as well and would like to get your input.

Question: how much whp do you think our OEM IRS can hold before going to a 9"?

I don’t think fixed numbers really mean anything. Too many variables. The lighter you make the car, the more it take. It’s the weight that kills stuff. I think the new DIRS with the proper bushings and control arms have really improved things. I think the 15” wheel with the larger/softer sidewall tires absorb some of the initial hit and with the high HP cars like Zdung using the second gear launch, the stock diff is running some impressive numbers.