Camaro ZL1 out duels the new Mustang GT500 except the 1/4 mile.

[ChargerChallenger]

Good read article which gives recognition to the Hellcats and the Camaro the better handling car and value. The GT is a 1/4 mile beast but lacks in the true road feel of confidence.
https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ng-shelby-gt500-vs-2019-chevy-camaro-zl1-1le/

 

[1971demon]

Good read article which gives recognition to the Hellcats and the Camaro the better handling car and value. The GT is a 1/4 mile beast but lacks in the true road feel of confidence.
https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ng-shelby-gt500-vs-2019-chevy-camaro-zl1-1le/

GT 500 lacking as a road car??...lol..well that doesn't sound very encouraging for the blue oval crew does it

 

[Hickster]

The 1st year,,, sorry for the story. It beat out every car on road track it faced. Then fell off the position as a race horse. I talked about this at the corner store where they sell Mad Dog for champagne. I got a wiff of this car. Got in touched with some guys at the factory, engineers division. Got the spec sheet, printed it out, and took it to the local rip off dealership. Took both vettes to see about a trade in. Came back with an answer of,,, this car doesn't exist. I have the spec sheet with pricing and extras. Under $65,000 with every thing. Can't sell what we can't get. Amazing. That's when I seriously looking at the H/C. Been almost 2 years, my time limit of a new engine. One reason for this chevy to be so fast was, and I guess still is, running 6 intercoolers placed every where. Cooler the engine, tranny, and other spare parts is amazing. 2 to 3 more than the high priced spread. 6 months later they called and said they could get one ordered. A bit late since I just ordered a $80,000 H/C. To this day, I do not know any one whom owns one. Not to say that's bad but no advertisement. The most inter coolers of any make and model.

 

[Hickster]

The Gt 500 is supposed to do better than the 350 in the corners. Dropped sum weight and redistributed other. To keep up with the Porcha GT3. For the $$$ not a bad deal. Wait 2 more years and see the recalls, if any. May be another car in the garage. After meeting with the accountant today,,, things are looking good. C8 looks good but??? Not much info out, yet.

 

[1971demon]

The 1st year,,, sorry for the story. It beat out every car on road track it faced. Then fell off the position as a race horse. I talked about this at the corner store where they sell Mad Dog for champagne. I got a wiff of this car. Got in touched with some guys at the factory, engineers division. Got the spec sheet, printed it out, and took it to the local rip off dealership. Took both vettes to see about a trade in. Came back with an answer of,,, this car doesn't exist. I have the spec sheet with pricing and extras. Under $65,000 with every thing. Can't sell what we can't get. Amazing. That's when I seriously looking at the H/C. Been almost 2 years, my time limit of a new engine. One reason for this chevy to be so fast was, and I guess still is, running 6 intercoolers placed every where. Cooler the engine, tranny, and other spare parts is amazing. 2 to 3 more than the high priced spread. 6 months later they called and said they could get one ordered. A bit late since I just ordered a $80,000 H/C. To this day, I do not know any one whom owns one. Not to say that's bad but no advertisement. The most inter coolers of any make and model.

That's why the Hellcat and its offspring variants by FCA rivals the release of the mustang in some way..though not as broad based..its just as dynamic

 

[1971demon]

The Gt 500 is supposed to do better than the 350 in the corners. Dropped sum weight and redistributed other. To keep up with the Porcha GT3. For the $$$ not a bad deal. Wait 2 more years and see the recalls, if any. May be another car in the garage. After meeting with the accountant today,,, things are looking good. C8 looks good but??? Not much info out, yet.

Buy the C8 Hick..you wont regret it

 

[Hickster]

The C8 just came out with some stats, 1st I have seen and look pretty good. But a mid engine auto,, has not done that bad. If you look at the price, start at the same as the H/C,, then the $$$ kicks in. If you look at the 2017 La Ferrari, looks the same. Nice. Very nice. The biggest difference Corvette has ever made. Going towards the European sports hall ass car. 1st year out, like to see how it fares. Could be my next fiancée.

 

[Magnified]

Good read article which gives recognition to the Hellcats and the Camaro the better handling car and value. The GT is a 1/4 mile beast but lacks in the true road feel of confidence.
https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ng-shelby-gt500-vs-2019-chevy-camaro-zl1-1le/

LOL, I was glancing through the article and saw 27 PSI on the dash display and was like the WTF?! It was oil pressure lol

 

[Magnified]

Also, where is this testing? LA? so zero altitude or so? 3.4 is damn fast, so is 3.6. I've done it here at 2580.

 

[DGatzby]

Good running Hellcat (locked ECU) beats the Camaro 60-150 mph.

 

[Hickster]

Like to see the road course event. Rolling thunder,, not for me.

 

[Hickster]

Buy the C8 Hick..you wont regret it

Looked it up again today. C8 great car, so far. Base price $68,000 then add the croutons, salad dressing, bacon bits and you it the same #$$. But knowing that going in,, sticker should not be a 220 but still be a 110. If you do your home work. Most of us are middle class, unless you are from Iowa, we do our work to keep the cleaners high and dry. No moe dealership kickbacks. Competition has gotten on the front lines with 700 HP out in front. Don't start with out that, kicked to the curb, unless you are from Europe then 5.2 litters, no recycle, and right at 800 HP and doing good. Porches are hard to beat and don't count out the the Ferries. The 2017 has been1 of the best. What about the 5,400 lb Bentlys?? Where are the $300,000 McClean's?? Too busy with the paint jobs,, seems to be. Another clean up day on Friday. 76 degrees and cold beer. Car show Sunday.

 

[Confuzed1]

I think it was a very good article and comparison. Kind of shocked that the GT500 still weighs 200#'s more....even with the very $$ carbon fiber package. Them saying the ZL1 is the better handling of the two doesn't surprise me too much really....they've had since 2010 to sort out the chassis on those cars while this a first year design for the GT.

I totally agree with the horrible view outside while sitting in the Camaro. Those side windows are short!! - I test drove one back in '10 before I finally decided to buy my first modern Challenger ('09 RT) - and in the Camaro, I felt a bit claustrophobic myself while driving it....like I was sitting in a cave looking out. But the handling (and brakes) even back then on the Camaro I found very impressive. It's got to be even better with the 1LE package.

As far as the engine vs engine goes, I'd pick the Mustang's OHC design over any pushrod engine any day of the week. Higher revving, tire shredding power.....and they get more of it with a smaller displacement engine. Seems Ford has gotten more ponies with less cubes for quite a while now...look at the Coyote 302's...

I'd gladly own either car if I win the lottery! I anticipate that Ford will make small changes in the suspension in the next couple of years that might make it more competitive with the Camaro.....we'll see.

EDIT: But IMO, for a straight line roomy muscle car that's still great on long trips, and pays a much better homage to the original design, I'll take the Challenger every time.

 

[motorhead]

...and while a manual might not be quicker than the dual-clutch, it'd probably be more fun.

Oh, great... just great...

Here we go again.

 

[Av8ing1]

As far as the engine vs engine goes, I'd pick the Mustang's OHC design over any pushrod engine any day of the week. Higher revving, tire shredding power.....and they get more of it with a smaller displacement engine. Seems Ford has gotten more ponies with less cubes for quite a while now...look at the Coyote 302's...

I'd rather the increased displacement. More torque in the lower end of the rpm range makes for more fun on the street. Pushrod engines package better. For a street car I would not want to give up displacement for higher rev range. If you were limited in displacement then you have to do what you can but if not, why? More parts, more cost, less low range torque and a much wider package to fit under the hood. That said, I'd love to have both of these cars in my garage keeping the Hellcat company.

 

[jroyk]

Oh, great... just great...

Here we go again.

My exact thoughts when I read that.

 

[Confuzed1]

I'd rather the increased displacement. More torque in the lower end of the rpm range makes for more fun on the street. Pushrod engines package better. For a street car I would not want to give up displacement for higher rev range. If you were limited in displacement then you have to do what you can but if not, why? More parts, more cost, less low range torque and a much wider package to fit under the hood. That said, I'd love to have both of these cars in my garage keeping the Hellcat company.

For strictly street use, I'd agree. But you can really only use so much torque unless you can find a way to put it to the ground without going up in smoke. It's the displacement that produces the torque, not how the valves are actuated. Make a bigger displacement OHC engine, and it'll make more TQ through the entire range. Of course, we'd all love to have one of these anyways!! -
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-giant-665-cubic-inch-big-block-makes-almost-1000-horsepower/

 

[Av8ing1]

I agree with you. I guess, as I'm not wealthy, its the value that comes into play. More power for less is what gets me. The fancy top end costs more. If you could have it all though, more displacement, more valves and more rpm would be ideal.

I've always felt like Ford sort of went the wrong way. The Mustang is/was supposed to be a more affordable muscle car. The expensive but smaller engine doesn't fit the platform well.

However, I agree that when you are making so much power that the torque is just shredding tires maybe a shift up of power in the band isn't a bad thing. It's probably my anti-ricer attitude that just favors bigger push-rod engines.

I used to have an S2000 and loved spinning that little mill. Despite my more muscle car leanings, I had a lot of appreciation for how well built and engineered the car was. It was however, not fast. I always thought it would have been near perfect if it had an LS1 under the hood.

 

[motorhead]

Super guicci spec sheet numbers aside there is a lot of consideration that has to be given the physical dimensions of these cars before condemning them for any single performance metric.

Widebody Hellcat Challenger:



ZL1 Camaro:



GT500:



All of the above specs are straight from C&D's website so I accept no responsibility in their accuracy. With that out of the way consider the wheel bases between the cars there is as much as 9 inches of difference, and then the total length is about 8 inches difference between the 3 cars, and then the track width varies by an inch or two. The Mustang being the dimensionally smallest of the 3 cars. So what? Well there are the compromises that comes with that (room kids, trunk space, ground clearance, comfort, ground clearance etc) - but who cares about these things when you want to be the best handling car (that you could track but never will)?

It comes down to, in my opinion as a quick and dirty determination, the wheel base to track width ratio. The rule of thumb is a 1.7 ratio is the ideal (not including other factors like moments of inertia, CG, roll centres, weight transfer, tires, etc) for a car with favourable handling characteristics. Only 2 of the cars above, have this designed in; and it is not the Challenger. The Mustang comes in at 1.7218, the Camaro at 1.7656, and the Challenger a very distant 1.8213.

So yes, you are ineffect literally splitting hairs when comparing those two cars which have been engineered to perform at the absolute limit (which most will never see).

 

[DGatzby]

I'll take a Redeye Widebody for starters. I will help my handicap with a couple of changes, and we shall see how it works out when they start showing up.